What makes a great engineering manager? (Part 2 - Chris Wayne of SUSE)
Continuing to explore this crucial role for tech companies through a conversation with a senior engineering manager
This is part 2 in a series asking various professionals in the tech industry “what makes a great engineering manager?” If you missed the first part in the series, you definitely want to read my interview with tech startup Stacklet’s head of people and culture, Erica Woods.
This second interview is with Chris Wayne, senior engineering manager of container infrastructure at SUSE. Previously, Chris was an engineering manager at Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu Linux. I came to know and appreciate his thoughtfulness and professionalism as a very effective human leader. It’s because of his ability to blend a human relational and technical set of skills that he was high on my list of professionals to interview in this series.
Chris is also a first-time father, currently away from his professional responsibilities on paternity leave, and is incredibly proud of his new baby girl Zelda.
Conversation with Chris Wayne
JH: First off, please introduce yourself.
CW: My name is Chris Wayne and I’m currently working as a Senior Engineering Manager at SUSE/Rancher, leading the development and QA teams building the K3s/RKE2 Kubernetes distributions. Previously, I spent more than a decade at Canonical, where I grew and led a QA organization focusing on automation and building a culture of quality among the larger organization.
JH: In what ways do you interact with engineering managers on a regular basis in your job?
CW: I work with Engineering Managers/Directors around my org daily, generally either in planned 1:1s or ad-hoc on Slack. We make sure that we regularly coordinate to ensure that any collaboration between our teams is moving forward as expected, as well as to communicate status and roadmap items that may affect other orgs. I feel it is crucial for management to remain in sync in a larger organization, else it’s easy to build too many tall silos.
I also feel it is extremely beneficial to ensure that teams work together to avoid duplication of effort, and to learn from each other’s mistakes and wins. I find it very beneficial to solicit feedback from other managers, both on my own and my team’s performance. This helps me to ensure that my team remains on the right track towards our larger organizational goals.
JH: Without naming someone specifically, who comes to mind as the best example of being an outstanding engineering manager?
CW: One of my last managers, let’s call him Frank, really helped to shape me into the manager that I am today. When I first reported to him, he took me aside to talk about what a manager actually is meant to do and explained that a manager’s job is not to dictate what your team does and how, rather, a manager’s job is to empower your team to do their jobs well and to unblock them whenever necessary. He would often talk about the importance of trust in an organization, and how not only does a manager need to trust their team, but that they need to earn the trust of each team member as well to function at a high level.
This specific manager would give his direct reports room to grow, try new things, and to make mistakes (as long as lessons were learned from them). By not micro-managing, he really showed me how to be autonomous, while providing a general sense of direction for the team and myself. Frank really helped me to see the value in being an effective manager, and how a good manager can act as a multiplier when it comes to the team’s output.
JH: What are 3 of the most significant attributes and habits these people have/do on a regular basis that are specifically related to them being outstanding engineering managers?
CW: The first 3 habits that come to my mind when thinking about an effective manager are:
Listening
Communicating effectively
Asking questions
JH: Why are these some of the top attributes of being an outstanding engineering manager?
CW: A good manager absolutely needs to listen to not only their team, but also any stakeholders of the team. This includes listening and soliciting feedback, but also keeping an ear out for any potential issues, whether they’re team relationship issues, technical issues, or communication issues. By listening to what their team tells them, a manager can be sure to push back on unreasonable asks, set proper expectations around deadlines or issues, and have a clear idea of the status of any different project day-to-day. A good manager will listen to their individual reports to figure out what they need to do their job, how they like to be motivated, and how the team’s morale is at any given moment.
Communicating effectively is difficult at times (especially in a remote, distributed organization), but is absolutely critical for being an effective manager. By communicating clearly, concisely, and accurately, a manager can ensure that team members understand exactly what is expected of them.
This also is crucial for making sure that other teams in your organization know what their team is doing, how they’re doing it, and how it can affect the rest of the organization. Different individuals and different teams communicate very differently, so an effective manager needs to be sure that they can tailor their communication style to the specific person/team they’re currently talking to. For example, some engineers may feel uncomfortable or become easily distracted during video calls, so an effective manager may decide to have 1:1’s over Slack. Some direct reports may want to share a little bit more about themselves and be more open, while others may be uncomfortable doing so.
By communicating with folks the way they prefer to be communicated with, a manager can build trust, and show their employees that they actually care.
Every great manager I’ve met has always asked many many questions and is general a curious person. This is very similar to the concept of communicating effectively, but it’s specifically about making sure that a manager knows exactly what is expected of them and their team, and making sure that they know all of the requirements involved. In some cases, when a manager does not ask clarifying questions, there could easily be a miscommunication in what is being asked of their team or of themselves as a manager. A good manager will make sure to ask questions of their team and get more involved.
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JH: What are some common ways that you see engineering managers get into trouble in their role?
CW: The biggest issue I see with new managers is wanting to do everything themselves. This is especially true when an outstanding IC (individual contributor) becomes a manager for the first time without any proper human management and leadership training. As an IC, you are measured by what you produce, but a manager is typically measured by the output and quality of their team.
The issue here is not just delegating (or lack of doing so) but rather one of trust. It can be hard for a new manager to trust their team to do what is required, especially at first. This (in my experience) always ends up turning into a massive problem in which the manager gets burned out trying to do every “important” task themselves while giving less important tasks to their team members. This never scales in the long run, and will almost always lead to burnout of the manager and lack of trust from their team.
The biggest issue I see with new managers is wanting to do everything themselves.
JH: What do you think is the most important set of proficiencies for an engineering manager to focus on - improving their people and team management skills or improving their technical skills, or maybe something else? Why?
CW: 100% improving their people and team management skills. Many managers in the tech industry feel this pressure to be the “best engineer on their team.” But to me, this is entirely backwards. In many cases, the best engineer on the team would not make a good manager because they lack the people skills and organizational behavior knowledge. Unfortunately, being a manager does sometimes come with some politics, and that’s a skill not everyone has (or wants to have, frankly). Someone starting off as a manager should focus on learning how to communicate effectively within a given team or organization, as that will get them considerably farther than a focus on deep diving into the tech stack used by their team. This is not to say that an engineering manager should not be technical – they should have some tech skills and experience – but it shouldn’t be a manager’s main focus.
JH: What are key differences between being a key individual contributor on a team (e.g. tech lead) versus being an engineering manager?
CW: One key difference between an IC and a manager is simply how one measures themself. A manager will measure their performance not by what they have achieved, but rather what their team as a whole have achieved. A manager should always focus on their team, never their own achievements. A manager will also be more likely to focus on “big picture” tasks such as process improvement and automation, while a tech lead will focus more directly on delivery of individual technical tasks and outcomes.
JH: What are the most important attributes and habits you look for in an engineer to where you feel comfortable promoting them to being an engineering manager? Does it matter what role(s) they are currently working in or have worked in before they’re ready to be a great engineering manager?
CW: I don’t think it matters as much what their previous role was, but when I look to make someone a manager, I look for their ability to lead their team without the title. I look for the engineer that steps up constantly, by motivating their teammates, leading engineering efforts to improve process or automation, and finding gaps while taking initiative to fill them. I look for an engineer that doesn’t need to be told what to do and has a good idea of what is and should be next up for them and their team.
JH: What specific advice would you give to a brand new engineering manager that would really help them succeed at their new role?
CW: The first bit of advice I’d give a new engineering manager is to not try and do everything on your own. It’s very difficult to change the mindset of a high performer IC into being a manager overnight. But a new manager simply cannot do everything themselves, and will need to learn to trust their team.
Secondly, I would say that an engineering manager’s job is simply to empower and unblock their team while providing direction. That means specifically seeking out roadblocks and removing them.
Lastly, I’d say that if they take care of their team, their team will take care of them. Remember that these are people that they’re managing; they’re not “resources”, they’re not numbers - they’re human beings with their own motivations, fears, insecurities, and strengths. To get the best out of any individual person, one has to know what motivates them and how to communicate with them.
JH: Chris, it’s been an absolute privilege, thank you for helping my readers better understand how they can get clearer on being a great engineering manager, but also helping individual engineers who work under a manager better understand how to ask for what they need from their own manager. Engineering managers can make a remarkable difference in people’s lives and you’re an amazing example of this.
What comes to mind and what questions do you have after reading this interview with Chris? I’d love to hear from you in the comments and other readers would also benefit from your thoughts and questions.
As always, thanks for reading and passing this along to others who would enjoy reading the Relational Technologist.
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As a new Software Engineer in the industry, it helps to know how I can help make my managers life easier by communicating my own motivations and communication style, especially when it comes to blockers. I think the crux of it is, like you say, building that trust through ownership of our roles and empathy. I love the part about leading without a title. I think that when everyone shares the load on the different aspects of a team (“leading” vs individual contributions), you help avoid burnout and make for a much more enjoyable experience.